James 4: 13 – 14
Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a town and spend a year there, doing business and making money." 14 Yet you do not even know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
Hebrews 13:12 – 14
12 Therefore Jesus also suffered outside the city gate in order to sanctify the people by his own blood. 13 Let us then go to him outside the camp and bear the abuse he endured. 14 For here we have no lasting city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
All readings are from the NRSV and copyright © 1989 National Council of Churches, USA
One of the saddest things that you may ever observe, is to get a bunch of old, frazzled, computer scientists together in a room, and just to let them talk. Speaking as one of this breed, it will not be long before we start to reminisce about “the good old days”. “Do you remember paper tape?”, someone will ask, and following the slow nods from the bearded heads around the room (yes, we all have beards) this will lead into a discussion about punched cards, paging operating systems, front panels, and so much more that is lost in the myst of history. The discussion will end in a similar manner to Monty Python’s Four Yorkshiremen sketch, where they say “and you tell that to the kids of today, and they won’t believe you”. Yes, we truly are a sad and dieing breed.
And rightly so, the world has moved on, technology is now in a very different place from when I started working with computers all those years ago. In 1979 a computer with a screen was considered the very latest thing, and we had one for the whole computer science A level class; today Powerpoint is an accepted way of life, and last night, at 11:06pm, I still had 16 friends who were online and available for a chat in Facebook, or videoconference if I so choose. The world has changed.
We can no more stop this constant motion of change, than we can stop the world from spinning, but then again, why should we? Arn’t we are the ones who follow in the footsteps of the creator, The book of Genesis says;
“1:26 Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
1:27 So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.”
and since science tells us that God created all things through an evolving revelation (as does the book of Genesis come to that), shouldn't we understand that part of the role that God has entrusted to us is to continue his work of creating. This is not to say that everything that we create will be good, clearly this is not the case, but we contain within us the image of the creator, and therefore creating is part of what we are capable of. This means that being agents of change is part of what makes us human; we are capable of changing the world in which we live rather than be entirely subject to it, like the rest of the animal kingdom. Likewise, as Christians we should be the ones who seek to cause change to happen in accordance to the will of the creator.
At the risk of repeating myself, isn’t this what “Which Way?” is all about? Us, being the agents of change, but making sure that what we are doing is in accordance with the will of the creator?
Let me end this session with another scenario, one that would be even sadder if you like. To have a group of Christians sat around, talking about “the good old days”, but where they then point to how nothing has changed from that day to this – how sad that would that be. Especially because I suspect that the conversation would end with the same punchline as my story at the start “and you tell that to the kids of today, and they won’t believe you”.
In our groups on Wednesday and Thursday there were five questions to stimulate the discussion, based on the bible readings quoted at the start – these have been re-produced by permission of the publisher:
1. What are the main technological developments that have transformed our way of life since childhood?
2. To what extenet has social change affectedthe concept of our nation as a Christian country? To what extent is the average person aware of the Christian Church in every day life?
3. In what ways is the Church today a different sort of organisation from when we were baptised?
4. In what ways has the experience of worship and church membership changed over our lifetime?
5. In our society should the Church be primarily a bastion of stability or an agent of change?
Taken from “Re-pitching the tent – Third Edition, by Richard Giles ©2004 Canterbury Press, an imprint of Hymns Ancient & Modern Ltd. Used by permission.
Hebrews 13:12 – 14
12 Therefore Jesus also suffered outside the city gate in order to sanctify the people by his own blood. 13 Let us then go to him outside the camp and bear the abuse he endured. 14 For here we have no lasting city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.
All readings are from the NRSV and copyright © 1989 National Council of Churches, USA
One of the saddest things that you may ever observe, is to get a bunch of old, frazzled, computer scientists together in a room, and just to let them talk. Speaking as one of this breed, it will not be long before we start to reminisce about “the good old days”. “Do you remember paper tape?”, someone will ask, and following the slow nods from the bearded heads around the room (yes, we all have beards) this will lead into a discussion about punched cards, paging operating systems, front panels, and so much more that is lost in the myst of history. The discussion will end in a similar manner to Monty Python’s Four Yorkshiremen sketch, where they say “and you tell that to the kids of today, and they won’t believe you”. Yes, we truly are a sad and dieing breed.
And rightly so, the world has moved on, technology is now in a very different place from when I started working with computers all those years ago. In 1979 a computer with a screen was considered the very latest thing, and we had one for the whole computer science A level class; today Powerpoint is an accepted way of life, and last night, at 11:06pm, I still had 16 friends who were online and available for a chat in Facebook, or videoconference if I so choose. The world has changed.
We can no more stop this constant motion of change, than we can stop the world from spinning, but then again, why should we? Arn’t we are the ones who follow in the footsteps of the creator, The book of Genesis says;
“1:26 Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
1:27 So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.”
and since science tells us that God created all things through an evolving revelation (as does the book of Genesis come to that), shouldn't we understand that part of the role that God has entrusted to us is to continue his work of creating. This is not to say that everything that we create will be good, clearly this is not the case, but we contain within us the image of the creator, and therefore creating is part of what we are capable of. This means that being agents of change is part of what makes us human; we are capable of changing the world in which we live rather than be entirely subject to it, like the rest of the animal kingdom. Likewise, as Christians we should be the ones who seek to cause change to happen in accordance to the will of the creator.
At the risk of repeating myself, isn’t this what “Which Way?” is all about? Us, being the agents of change, but making sure that what we are doing is in accordance with the will of the creator?
Let me end this session with another scenario, one that would be even sadder if you like. To have a group of Christians sat around, talking about “the good old days”, but where they then point to how nothing has changed from that day to this – how sad that would that be. Especially because I suspect that the conversation would end with the same punchline as my story at the start “and you tell that to the kids of today, and they won’t believe you”.
In our groups on Wednesday and Thursday there were five questions to stimulate the discussion, based on the bible readings quoted at the start – these have been re-produced by permission of the publisher:
1. What are the main technological developments that have transformed our way of life since childhood?
2. To what extenet has social change affectedthe concept of our nation as a Christian country? To what extent is the average person aware of the Christian Church in every day life?
3. In what ways is the Church today a different sort of organisation from when we were baptised?
4. In what ways has the experience of worship and church membership changed over our lifetime?
5. In our society should the Church be primarily a bastion of stability or an agent of change?
Taken from “Re-pitching the tent – Third Edition, by Richard Giles ©2004 Canterbury Press, an imprint of Hymns Ancient & Modern Ltd. Used by permission.
Unfortunately I wasn’t able to attend the house group tonight as I was playing at being ‘dads taxi’.
ReplyDeleteI was able to download the readings, comments and questions to my mobile whilst waiting for Jacob, although I kept getting interrupted by work emails which also arrive day and night to my mobile.
Fortunately the ‘sat nav’ told me exactly how long it would take to get from Heywood Swimming baths to Deane School and back again.
Maybe social change hasn’t affected the concept of our nation as a Christian country. Perhaps society has moved on and the Church hasn’t.
I find very depressing, that at nearly 43 at many meetings, events and services, I’m often the youngest person there (expect when Alison and Phil are there). The Church isn’t that different from the when I was baptised, or certainly what I remember from being little. By and large the format of services is the same, the pews are just as hard, the layout of the buildings hasn’t changed. Apart from the microphone the technology the same. We sing the same hymns 9 times out of 10.
When you sit back and think about it, it’s ludicrous. You simply won’t accept that in any other walk of life. You wouldn’t go to a cinema that had the same seats it had 40 years ago or visit a shop that was still selling the same goods that it did 40 years ago. So why do we think it’s normal for Church. We claim its history or tradition but the majority of its Victorian, which in 2000 years of Christianity is hardly a long time.
‘A first time visitor to a church said You are asking me to change the way I speak, the sort of music I enjoy, the length of time I usually listen to a speaker, the type of people I mix with, my body temperature, the type of pew I sit on, the type of clothes I am used to seeing people wear, my sense of humour. You expect me to know when to stand, sit and kneel and the answers to prayers I have never heard. I am prepared to change but there was nowhere I could connect any part of my life with that service.’
There is no doubt that Church membership has changed over the years. I think people identify less with denominations. Friends and family who have moved areas and sought out a new church are more concerned with the worship and warmth of the people rather than the denomination.
Throughout history the Church has been at fore front of change and that includes those who laid the foundations of Longsight and Tottington Road. Those same Christians helped to provide a health service when there was none through the voluntary hospitals and the Hospital Sunday collections. They would have been involved in the campaign to abolish slavery and women’s suffrage. They helped build a local childrens home and schools. They set up Friendly Societies to provide death and funeral benefits. Why can’t we be so radical in our generation.
Seems like Local Preachers still have a tendancy to say in 1000 words what could be said in 20 !!!! :o)
ReplyDeleteSorry Peter I couldnt resist
I have to say after being at the house group tonight I am quite depressed. We have not communicated the information re website and study notes for people to prepare beforehand anything like as well as we thought.
Discussion was varied and at times energetic but the members who can always be relied on to give us real depth into the scriptural meaning of our discussions and challenge us to really think of what God is calling us to do didn't seem to engage as they usually do. Appologies if I as usual said to much and listened to little.
We did discuss if for the next house group the questions and Ians overview could be distributed the previous week to help prepare.
Any help or suggestions on how I personally can begin to ask 'which way' would be brilliant !!!
To end on a positive note as for why can't we be more radical, We can !!! As a Church we are incredibly fortunate in the people we have, we just need support and prayer to discern Which Way
Just come across a Hymn in Songs of Fellowship 2 that I didn't know by Charlotte Exon
ReplyDeleteHoly Spirit move within me
link to purchase MP3 is below its No 15
http://www.kingsway.co.uk/Shop/Products/138803/Home/Downloads/Music_MP3s/Praise_Worship/Power_Praise_Volume_3_MP3.aspx
I found it really helpful so thought it might be worth sharing !!
A couple of years ago a few of us went to see Rob Bell of Mars Hill Bible Church in Stockport.
ReplyDeleteIt was probably the most Inspiring Evening I have every spent he really was able to Give meaning to what we should be as Christians in the 21st Century.
Have a look at http://www.marshill.org
it may just give some inspiration for us to ask Which Way
Thanks for this David. The marshill web site is really good. It's a good example of what can be achieved with vision, faith and the holy spirit.
ReplyDeleteI found this quote which is kind of relevant (can't cut and paste the photo)
''The room we gather in on Sundays is full of gray chairs like this. They're comfortable for an hour or so, but after a while they make you want to get up and go do something. Which is part of the point, really.
Surely the internet has got to be one of the biggest technological adavances of our lifetime in terms of its effect on society. It has opened up the world in such a way that nothing can really stand still for long. Virtually instantaneous, seemingly limitless and almost impossible to 'police'. We can now find out about anything in a simple way in an instant. It may be factual, it may be utter rubbish. All in all, it has made the world a very tiny place. Why spend time doing something the hard way when you can do the same thing almost instantly on the internet? As a society, we are less good at waiting, less good at being patient. We want everything to happen yesterday. We don't want to sit and read a book, we want full colour 3D film with cinema surround sound. We don't want to sit still in Church listening to someone preaching for ever, we want to be entertained. We want to move with the fast pace of life!
ReplyDeleteWhat relevance does the Christian faith have in this day and age? It is no longer necessary to say 'I'm a Christian' to be in with the crowd. In fact, it seems more socially acceptable these days to say 'I'm an atheist' or 'I don't really care'. 95% of the people that I work with like Christian values and would like their children to behave in a way consistent with Jesus's teaching but would not send their child to Sunday school if you paid them. 'The Church is irrelvant and outdated and who needs God, if He even exists, anyway? is their attitude'. Life is easy - who needs God?
Yes, society, technology, the world has changed drammatically in the 30 odd years of my life. But Church? N0! Recognisably the same as it was when I was a child. Most of the time, I would be hard pressed to notice any difference between walking into a service now and walking into one when I was a child - just more empty seats I suppose!
It's difficult though. Before I started as Sunday school leader, I spent time going round other Sunday schools of all denominations as well as various within our own circuit to see what they did. The answer - nothing very different, anywhere, from when I was in Sunday school. It is difficult to be radically different. In fact, I would go as far as to say I witnessed nothing radical in any of my visits. What would I like to be different in Sunday school then, if I had the chance? I would love to have the facilities to use more technology. When someone asks a question, to be able to look it up there and then on the internet, etc. to use interactive white boards etc, to show unprepared things in an instant, to 'entertain with multimedia' whilst still driving home the reality of a living relationship with a living God. Would that be radically different? Same message, just presented in a more user friendly, current way I suppose. Podcasts, websites, blogs - we're getting there. We are moving with the times. We are starting to catch up with the rest of society. BUT, we can bring people in and entertain them in a new and up-to-date way but still find that God is not relevant in people's lives. They need to want to know God, to realise the need for Him in their lives and that's where the real challenge is. It's not something that we can just throw money at - you know - new modern building, high tech facilities etc etc. God needs to be real in us and we need to be beacons shining out the reality of the difference God makes. We need to be out there in society, in the midst of our community as living demonstrations of the power of a very current and living God - that I think is a way bigger challenge than beoming a more relevant place to worship on a Sunday. How do we achieve that? Not sure! OK God - Which Way?
Sorry organblower - perhaps Sunday school leaders have a tendancy to say in 10,000 words what could be said in 20!
ReplyDeletelike the quote Pete! I would hate for our new Church to be so comfy on the inside that we forgot to go out!!
ReplyDeletedarn you beat me to it......
ReplyDeleteSince my childhood the main technological advances must all be computer and imaging related. I cannot say that I miss having a ZX Spectrum with its massive 48K memory and 16 colours although Jet Pac Jak was pretty good. Seriously, computing and imaging (projection) had brought a new dimension to our worship.
ReplyDeleteHas the church really changed though? In a small way, yes, but there is probably a lot which had not changed. We are an aging population and I wonder if the church is reflecting that. Technological advances in medicine have allowed people longer, fuller lives (although sadly failed others who will be missed). Is it just me or does it seem that the older generations are not getting any older - we are just catching them up? I don't want to grow old sat in a hard pew, I want to stand up and sing new songs to the Lord (although don't make me clap 'cos I'm not good at that). I want to see a certain Snowden at the front of church in an Animal mask beating the heck out of a set of drums, the bad news Ian is that as the bassist you get the blond wig :-). As the muppets said - it's time to get things started.....
My mistake Ian, Janice played lead guitar, you just need to grow a big orange moustache.
ReplyDeleteAlison better 10 0000 words than non at all :o)
ReplyDeleteand hey why cant we have a muppet Praise Band ?
Just incase anyone is struggling to find hymns over the next few weeks my favourite is Mission Praise 269 it couldalso be addapted by making it plural.
We do not know what lies ahead
the way we cannot see
yet one stands near to be our guide
he'll show the way to me (us doesnt sound right)
We know who holds the future
and He'll guide us with his hand
with God things dont just happen
everything by him is planned
So as we face tomorrow
with its problems large and small
We'll trust the lord of miracles
Give to him our all.
hopefully we are covered by CCCL if not shoot me :o)
Could something as wonderful as our Universe have been born out of utter chaos?
ReplyDeleteSorry I can’t attribute it but it was from a Catholic Website and I lost the link.
I came across it after seeing Marcus Brigstocke on the BBC promoting his west end show Dog Collar with the tag line "There's probably no God... but I wish there was. I've got some things I need to ask him"
Marcus is a bright talented Comedian who is making money out of in his words ‘causing some offence to provoke a reaction from the Abrahamic Faiths.
It would be very easy to condemn him, however should we not respond by critically reviewing the things we are perceived to do or indeed do in God’s name that are open to ridicule.
Margaret Krawec asked me to post the following:
ReplyDeleteSome Further Thoughts After Last Thursday's House Group On The Topic 'The
Environment of Change.'
Having decided to look again at the five questions we had been asked to consider, I realised that three of them use the word 'change', while the remaining two questions contained the words 'transformed' and 'different' respectively. Whilst reflecting on the word 'change', a saying of Jesus from The Gospel of Thomas came to mind.
"Let him who seeks not cease from seeking until he finds; and when he finds, he will be turned around; and when he is turned around, he will marvel, and he shall reign over the All."
It seemed to me that 'to be turned around' is to be changed, transformed or be different. I discovered that the words translated 'turned around' could also be translated 'disturbed' or 'troubled'. Change can frequently disturb or trouble us. Also 'to be turned around' implies we see things differently. Jesus then said that when we are 'turned around' -changed, disturbed, out of our comfort zone, we begin to view life and the whole cosmos from a different perspective - God's viewpoint, not ours, consequently we will marvel, be astonished, full of wonder and awe, or in current jargon, experience the WOW factor! For we can begin to reign, i.e. rule, govern, direct by and through His Love All Creation.
What a gift! But also an encouragement to allow ourselves to 'be turned around', changed, transformed, so that we can play our part in transforming society and the environment.
Note on The Gospel of Thomas.
It is said to be a recording of sayings of Jesus written by the Apostle Thomas. It was hidden by monks in the 10th century in the sands of Egypt, when many books were ordered to be destroyed, and discovered in 1945 by two peasants looking for fertiliser, along with several other books, which are now called the Nag Hammadi Library.